all right. that does it for "the cycle." joy reid is in for martin. and joy, it is all yours. >> all good stuff, krystal. let's hang out. >> i'll come over. >> sounds good. good afternoon, it is wednesday, november 27th. and on this thanksgiving eve, pardon our interruption. thanksgiving might be the best holiday we have here in america. >> house full of people. everybody getting along. >> 43 million of you are hitting the road for thanksgiving. >> by mistake, i had picked up the wrong family at the airport. >> gosh, i hope you have a sandwich or a pillow or something. >> top ten things to look for now. >> got over 34, the biggest balloons, like snoopy, will be grounded. >> for example, speaker of the house, john boehner. >> yes w he decided to fix the broken health care system, when they prepare the turkey at his house. >> republicans see the health care law as the gift that keeps on giving. >> they know it's done when it's the same color as his face. >> the gift that keeps on giving

the whole year. >> perfect. >> generally speaking, thanksgiving it a bad day to be a turkey. >> a lot more calm to work with. >> i salute our two guests of honor. >> he struts a little more. >> caramel and popcorn for their bravery. this is a quintessentially american holiday. before we gather with family, friends and neighbors to feast and give thanks, today it's time to beg your pardon. and, yes, we are talking turkey. one particular turkey by the name of popcorn granted clemency this afternoon by president obama, part of a long tradition dating back to at least president john f. kennedy. popcorn vied against feathered riv rival caramel in an online poll. don't worry. both gobble to the end of their lives. >> we can officially declare

that popcorn is the winner. proving -- there you go. proving that even a turkey with a funny name can find a place in politics. as for caramel, he's sticking around, and he's already busy raising money for his next campaign. >> unfortunately for the commander in chief, this was a brief reprieve from the pressures of the presidency. cautious white house officials are already urging staunch supporters to stay off the website this weekend to help prevent a potential crash from a second rush of users. after the glitchtastic debut october 1st. and the administration today delayed online enrollment by one year, shifting to an offline route instead. but for both the health law's supporters and opponents, it's personal. with each side using the holiday as a vehicle to spread their message. the democratic national committee launched its own

website, your republican uncle.com with handy notes for defending the affordable care act at the dinner table. your uncle says obama care only adds to the deficits. and you say the congressional budget estimates it will save more than $200 billion in the first decade and $1 trillion in the following ten years. and then you go for seconds on dessert. see? it's as easy as pumpkin pie. as for republicans, they're getting a jump on festivus, asking folks to join in an online airing of grievances, sharing stories of insurance cancellations at gop.gov. we're guessing they're not going to follow up with information on the new plans that are better and more affordable. but happy thanksgiving to you too, speaker boehner. joining me now, krystal b l ball, and professor bob shrum. caramel and popcorn, good to go. all squared away. very important. >> yes, although i was on team carpel. >> you were on team caramel? >> it's weird to name turkeys caramel and popcorn, i'm just

saying. so the newest change in the administration is to delay the small businessman date, and, of course, that triggers the anger of one very orange speaker of the house, mr. boehner. and this is what he had to say. he said, quote, the president bit off more than he can chew with this health care law, and small businesses are now forced to bear the consequences. if this president won't repeal it, he should at least delay the entire law before it wreaks anymore havoc on american families and small businesses and our economy and on and on and on. and bah humbug, are there no prisons, no workhouses. discuss. >> this is their thing, right? if the president continues with the rollout, as was originally scheduled, they say, o we should just take a break. we should take things slow. why not push things back a little bit. and then when he actually does push something back, they say, whoa, this is just a sign that the whole thing is a mess and we ought to scrap it all together. so i mean, i think the president's team has been responsible in pushing back pieces that didn't have to come into place that are not vital for the law to work in this year. if that's appropriate, they should do it. they should be flexible about the approach, and i think they

have done a good job with that piece, while other parts of the rollout haven't been so great. but the republicans have no credibility here. because all they want to do is report -- is point to any problem with the affordable care act that they can possibly find, whether it's an anecdote, true, false. and so ultimately, they have done themselves a disservice, because i don't think the american people listen to the republican party on this particular issue anymore. they just expect that it's going to be all gloom and doom coming from that corner. >> right. and to your point, krystal, there is polling out on this, bob shrum. we have a new poll out that talks about people's attitude. the majority in this new -- i think it's a cnn poll say 53% say it's too early to judge the law, to krystal's point and 54% say the current problems can be resolved. at the end of the day, we deal with websites, websites crash, an unfortunate thing of technology, doesn't always work. but people don't seem to be quite as cynical or nearly as cynical as republicans are about the long term prospects of the law.

>> and that poll did something else very interesting. they asked people who said they were opposed to obama care why. and 14% were opposed oh, because it wasn't liberal enough. you add those to the folks who favor the law, you actually have a majority in favor of the law. look, i think the american people are pretty level-headed about this. the press isn't. and what ted cruz said when he conducted that phony filibuster, that once obama care takes effect, people get all these benefits, preexisting conditions are covered, their kids aren't thrown off, they don't have insurance company can calling them in the middle of cancer treatment saying sorry your lifetime limit is over, go ahead and die. once people understand this law, and they're enrolled in it, he said they're never going to give it up. i think that's true. and i think right now the president is at a bit of a low point, driven by this story. but as the website gets fixed, as all of this begins to work, people are going to step back and say wait a minute, this law is good. and by the way, he did get a deal with iran that nobody thought was possible.

and by the way, syria is giving up its chemical weapons can . and by the way, he actually faced down the congress so we're probably not going to have another government shutdown or another attempt to play fast and loose with the credit rating in the united states. >> i wish i was that confident there. >> isn't there maybe a little bit of what professor shrum is saying is this, the fact that people don't necessarily know what the affordable care act itself is. you tell them obama care, and they say i don't like that. they don't necessarily know the components. in a way, could that work to the democrats' favor. because to the professor's point, once people actually already have the benefits, they may not know are the affordable care act. if the republicans were to try to repeal that, then people would suddenly discover that their child being on their insurance up to age 26 was being taken away. that they were now being reimposed caps on coverage. that they were now being resubject to recision. meaning insurance company can can just spot cancel you whenever they want to. if people were discover that, i think republicans understand, they cannot repeal those things. >> no. that's right. and the republicans have been pedaling in anecdotes. and there was a study found that

regarding these cancellation notices folks are getting and rate shock and that, only .6% of the population, even may possibly face losing their insurance and having a rate increase. so it is a tiny percent of the population. and i have to say, you know, not being able to go to your same provider in network, that's annoying. you know, having a slight premium increase, that's annoying. but contrast that to not having health insurance at all. to dying because you don't have health insurance. it's not equivalent. so, yeah, if -- i think if people were actually facing down, okay, republicans could take control of the senate. republicans have control of the house. republicans could be in power. and they could take away these things that we have just gotten that we are just starting to benefit from. there would be a massive backla backlash. and republicans understand. >> you can tell they're understanding that. they're now saying to people, log on to our website and tell us your horror stories.

bob shrum, don't republicans understand, 15 million people who never had health insurance at all were to get health insurance or 10 or 5, that's 5, 10, 15 million people invested in keeping this law. people who actually never had health insurance before, period, who were the biggest beneficiaries of the law. >> i think that's absolutely right. and one of the reasons i'm confident about this is something that you said earlier. which is, whenever you introduce one of these new i.t. platforms, especially when it involves tens of millions of people, they have problems. now, am i making excuses for this? no. they should have been ready. this thing should have been tested. it should have been up and running. one thing i've seen about barack obama over these last five, six, serve years, he's a fourth quarter player. when things get tough, he gets very good. think of him after that first debate in denver. think of him after the jeremiah wright controversy. or scott brown's election when people said health care is dead. i suspect that on this fund raising trip he's taken to california, he's spending a lot of time in the hotel and a lot of time on air force one,

talking with these people, reviewing this website. finding out where we are. and sure, it's still going to have some glitches. but it's going to work a lot better. >> let's shift gears. the next big fight is going to be on the budget. so the republicans, is there any possibility that they move off their obama care log line. this is something they feel is working for them, feel like it's giving them mojo. do they dare shut the government down and change the subject again? >> well, i think the majority of the republican caucus does not want to shut the government down. i think a majority of the republican caucus last time didn't want to shut the government down. but you have groups like heritage action, people like ted cruz, who want to make this a litmus test. they want to make it purity test. and they benefit from saying, you know, you're the true conservative. if you're standing strong for repealing obama care and look what a mess it is now more than ever, we've got the american people behind us. so i am fearful that we are going to go down that road again, whether the majority of the republican caucus wants to or not. they didn't want to last time.

>> last word. shutdown or no shoun shutdown. >> no shutdown. >> keeping it real. bob shrum and krystal ball. happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving to you. >> coming up, the republican feast on obama care has been dplut gluttonous to say the least. we'll bring in democratic congressman, charlie rangel, when we come back. [ female announcer ] skin looking tired? wake it up with olay regenerist. formulated with a skin energizing complex, it penetrates 10 layers of the skin's surface, because energized skin is younger looking skin. ♪ is youngavo: thesales event "sis back. drive" which means it's never been easier to get a new 2014 jetta.

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with about 11 months until 2014, congressional -- until the 2014 congressional elections,

democrats have seen their post shutdown advantage evaporate. the latest polling shows a swing in republicans favor, sure to make democrats nervous. president obama has signaled he's not about to give up fighting for his latest signature achievement. >> we should not live in a country where people are going bankrupt just because they get sick. and anybody who is going to keep on pushing against that, they will meet my resistance, because i am willing to fix any problems there are, but i'm not going to abandon people to make sure they've got health insurance this country. that's not something we're going to do. >> joining us, democratic congressman, charlie rangel in new york, i'm always happy to be in the company. >> it's a joy to be with you, joy. >> thank you, sir. the issue showing a lot of fight on the issue of health care reform. in 2010, when democrats seemed to run away from health care reform, do you expect your party to run toward it, 2014, despite

the problems? >> i think the answer to health care, how many people really need health insurance that are not even talked about. and that's the 40 million, 50 million people. we need young people that don't consider it urgent. i don't care whether they're in the republican districts, tea party districts, rich districts. people don't understand health insurance until they get sick. >> right. >> but the more and more we start talking about it and people get enrolled and find out it's not a nightmare, but a safety vehicle, the president knows what he's doing. it's a lot of bumps, far more than i wish we had. but at the end of the day, you can go to a town hall meeting and knock the program. but when most of the people there are enjoying health benefits and they had preconditions or too old and couldn't get health insurance, it's not going to be a democrat-republican issue. it's the right thing. >> do you get a sense your republican colleagues understand that, do they understand that

once people have the coverage, all bets are off. it's going to be impossible to tell their own constituents in some cases, you can't keep this. >> you know, i remember years ago, there used to be a part of the liberal democrats, and they said that november didn't count, because they were the new democrats. and they would agitate, but at the end of the day, in november, we were on the wrong side of the issues. what's happening with the so-called republican party is that they want to be in charge of the congress. but the people that they have made a contract with, they don't care about themselves politically. they don't care about the republican party. they don't care about the congress. and to my amazement, when the debt ceiling issue came up, they don't care about the country. the answer is that when wall street really gets upset, as they did when the government closed, they knew how to call boehner and say all bets are off. and what does he do? nothing courageous, except say republicans vote the way you

want, and let the tea party do what they want. and so as far as what happens in november, both parties are such low in terms of national favor, it doesn't take much of anything for someone to say, well, at least they're not as bad as that one. >> what you're talking about there is leverage. it seems that's what's been absent when it comes to the republican leadership. is the leverage of the business community. until, as you said, the last minute. you said they don't seem to care about the country. what do you think is driving, and what do the leaders of the opposition party -- what is it they care about? >> the leaders of the opposition party -- who do you think they are? i really don't think they have -- and i don't say this in an as parjing way. but john boehner could not be considered. a ted cruz is not a leader. quite frankly, they are so fractured, that even if they got rid of boehner, there has been nobody that they could select. they are -- they are divided. and so the real people that

should be able to direct this is the people that finance them. and there is no question that the goose that lace the golden egg for 1% of america's wealth are not going to see this country's fiscal capability go down the drain. >> yeah. i want to switch topics a little bit. you have talked about executive authority. and this week on monday, there was a heckler that actually heckled president obama, and demanded that he use his executive powers in a certain way for immigration. >> let's listen. >> that's why we're here. >> mr. president, please use your executive order to halt deportations for 11.5 immigrants in this country right now. do you agree that we need to pass -- the president did explain to that heckler the president does not have the authority to use an executive order to halt all deportation or halt immigration laws that are the law of the land. you have said the president

should be more forthright in using executive power. is there something, in your understanding, the president could do on immigration without the congress? >> i don't want this to be considered critical of the president. but executive power is wide and broad, and to a large extent, the affordable care act is being enforced and going on through executive order. when my committee, when i passed out so much of the affordable care act, a lot of it was actually unwritten. and so when republicans and democrats complained that i didn't know what was in it, it's because we did not know what fixes were necessary and we left it up to the president. so everyone is surprised he's doing it, but it's in the law. and in the immigration law, whatever is good for the united states of america -- deportation of people is not the law. the same way you heard the attorney general say that we're not going to emphasize people that have committed nonviolent

crimes that can be rehabilitated and put them in jail for five or ten years and spend all their money. hey, it didn't take congress to say it. i have a former prosecutor, but even in the city of new york, i don't remember the last time anyone was ever arrested for smoking marijuana. they didn't change the law. but that's it. so we have more deportees in this administration than all added up together. i'm not saying the president shouldn't enforce the law. but how does it help us in terms of national security to have all of these lives, especially people who invested their time and effort to make this a greater country, and they woke up in the morning and say, oh, my god, my kids are in school, and they are taking me down to be deported. >> right. >> so, yes. and as a matter of fact, i think there's other areas that the president could use his executive order. and when you're right and moral, let the republicans say it shouldn't happen.

>> let them challenge it. sage advice from a very wise man. thank you so much, congressman charlie rangel, have a happy thanksgiving. >> and the best to you, joy. planes, trains and automobiles as americans try to beat the stormy weather. but will the giant inflatable snoopy get off the ground? very important. stay with us. ♪ hat city you're playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. vicks nyquil -- powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ 6-symptom cold & flu relief. we've been bringing fopeople together., today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options,

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you get after the health care law. open enrollment ends december 7th. so now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec-d®. powerful relief of nasal congestion and other allergy symptoms -- all in one pill. zyrtec-d®. at the pharmacy counter. it's the busiest travel day of the year, and millions of americans are left wondering how this brutal wintory storm will affect their holiday plans. and then there is perhaps the more pressing concern. will macy's be able to fly their maimous balloons for the big thanksgiving day parade what? no giant pokey man? say it isn't so. this afternoon we got an answer, maybe. it's not exactly the answer we were hoping for. as of now, the beloved character

balloons are being inflated and parade organizers confident they'll be able to take flight tomorrow as planned. this will only happen if sustained winds remain below 23 miles per hour and gusts below 34 miles per hour. so the final decision on whether they fly in the morning is still up in the air. meanwhile, travel issues do continue to be problematic for those millions trying to make it to their thanksgiving dinner. by this morning, new york's laguardia airport, as well as philadelphia airports, were already experiencing delays of nearly two hours, which, of course, delays -- causes delays at airports throughout the nation with some seeing flight cancellations. as the heavy rain and high winds continue to plague the east coast in parts of pennsylvania, ohio, west virginia and western new york, driving conditions are also expected to be less than ideal. while the storm will certainly delay millions of travelers by air and road, the good news, it's not as bad as once feared so your travel home should be

problem-free. and it could be worse. you could get to your family's thanksgiving and this guy is there. >> mmmm, mmmm, so tender. man. you would have to be an idiot to be a vegetarian. i'm talking to you, karen. you sure are saving a lot of animals by not eating this dead one. oh, oh, go running to the forest little guy, be free! >> and coming up, the neo pros and consequence of diplomacy with iran. the day's top lines are next. ♪

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is a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts? what if i eat the wrong thing? what if? what if i suddenly have to go? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisadvocates.com to connect with a patient advocate from abbvie for one-to-one support and education. from ideology to analogy, here are today's top lines. look out for operation turkey freedom! >> i'm not an ideological guy. >> that's right, president obama. >> but there are some things i really believe in.

>> now openly negotiating with terrorists. >> my top priority is making sure that everybody who is willing to work hard can get ahead. >> you bet your sweets, mr. commie. >> people call me a socialist sometimes. >> he takes great umbrage to that socialist description. >> you've got to meet real socialists. >> it's because it's the truth. >> you don't have a sense of what a socialist is. >> he's not a real socialist. he's just a fake socialist. >> here's the reason to be thankful. >> now obama has iran -- >> there's apparently some kind of deal with iran. >> understand the cover of darkness, our fearless commander in chief. >> obama says he prefers diplomacy to war. >> nuclear agreement with a rogue regime in tehran. >> well, i knew there was something fishy about that guy. >> what you have here, it seems to me, is go to war line,% leading. >> an opportunity to avert a war. >> who among us would not prefer a diplomacy? >> you could have strikes that aren't, quote, going to war. >> it's interesting to see the neo consequence come back out of

the woodwork. >> live coverage of operation turkey freedom. >> did you spot weld this, mom? >> that is just pathetic. and there's more. >> this is a sham from beginning to end. >> i have my critics, obviously. >> it's the worst deal since munich. >> munich is a stupid analogy. >> is it me or do the president's comments sound eerily similar to what envelope chamberlain said back in 1938. >> this is sort of like winston churchill. >> we're not talking about czechoslovakia in 1938. >> only a fool goes to war if he or she doesn't have to. >> it's always going to be messy. >> let's get right to our panel. joining us now, democratic strategist, angela rye. y gore voluntarily ski of think progress.org and josh barrow. listening to that montage, the difference between now and 2003 is that the public is four square on the side of liberal internationalists this time.

really no constituency for this idea of attacking iran. why do you suppose the neocons are going whole hog in that direction, anyway? >> i mean, you're right. they're like that crazy uncle at the thanksgiving table, where as after 9/11, you had the entire intelligencia, the media, parroting this view of intervention and that's a way to bring peace around the world and expand american presence. yes, the entire mind-set has changed, we're on a different world. americans are in a different place. and the truth is that if this deal with iran succeeds, it really proves the failure that their vision has been. that if you can get at this diplomatically and solve this in a way they were never able to during the eight years of bush, it proves that they were wrong. and that's exactly why they're so scared. and why you hear all this over the top rhetoric. >> angela, when you talk to democrats on the hill, another big difference now, you don't have -- you have a few democrats who have expressed cautious sort

of reluctance about the deal. but in general, you don't have democrats rushing to the side either. are democrats you talk to surprised there's been this -- marco rubio, all of these guys rushing out and seeming to be so bellicose when the public isn't with them? >> what's really interesting here, joy, just to take you back to the first term. when president obama talked about doing something like this, just being in conversations with iran, he was heavily criticized. and the fact that now it looks like something may happen, we have seen this story before. the republicans don't want him to succeed at all. so i think that you see some democrats that are just like, listen, war fatigue is still real. we still feel it on the hill and means feel it in the country. we don't want to rush into any war-like situation. . so we want to try diplomatic efforts first. this is a six-month, very temporary sanction relief period for folks to see what types of things iran can can really do in terms of working to build trust with this country and vice

versa, as well as with the overall p5 plus 1. so it's an opportunity to test this out. and i think you find democrats, at least the reasonable minds among us, seeing let's see where this goes. >> josh, we have to give everybody a tourniquet on the awkwardness. it can't be the neocons draining the dust bin. there is awkwardness on the democratic side too. i want to play some sound from a very important democrat who could have some awkwardness on this issue herself going forward. >> intelligence reports show that saddam hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. he has also given aid, comfort and sank u area to terrorists, including al qaeda members. >> now, of course, hillary clinton did walk back a lot of her support for the war, and very far back. but it did become an issue for

her in the primaries in 2008. the fact she was a hawk, she was with the hawks in terms of iraq. is it possible that this could come back to haunt a hillary clinton, let's say presidential candidate in 2016? >> i think probably not, because it's going to be such ancient history. obviously, invading iraq was a huge mistake and hillary's involvement was a mark against her. although much of our political class on both sides of the aisle -- >> john kerry was for it as well. >> a lot of people learned lessons from that, including hillary clinton. but hillary's relevant foreign policy record to the extent she runs for president will be her record as secretary of state. it will essentially be the obama record on foreign policy. so to the extent that obama has moved toward a lighter and less invasive form of the war on terror that involves fewer deaths and fewer boots on the ground, that's going to be the legacy she is going to run on. and it's hard to run on the left, because you really have to run against president obama to the left and i think that's going to be a very difficult thing to do in a democratic primary. >> and john, you know, that's an

excellent point that josh makes. she will be running on the obama foreign policy, not interventions, not huge -- or igor, sorry. not invasions on other countries. it's about diplomacy. does hillary get the full benefit, given the iran deal happened after she left state? >> i think she does. she was part of the announcing the sanctions in 2011. even with then her record of secretary of state, you have pieces that translate very well to our domestic audience. her fight for gender equality around the world, her emphasis on lgbt equality around the world. that speech she gave in december of 2010. there are big constituencies for both of those issues within the democratic party, within the wider united states. and i think if she runs for president, those two things are going to be very big assets. and those really marked her tenure. >> and you know, angela, i think we do get too obsessive too early on the idea of hillary 2016. she hasn't made an announcement

yet. but it is fascinating whether or not as a candidate she would be running more as a clinton, right, or more as barack obama, essentially in his third term. what is the sense people have of how much obama legacy she would be running on and how much clinton legacy? >> well, she definitely is tied to the administration. the first secretary of state, his opponent in 2008. so there's definitely some places where she has aligned herself with the obama administration. and she has been a trail blazer in the obama administration to all of the points that igor just mentioned. but she also is inescapably a clinton. with that she carries the fact that she was first lady of arkansas, first lady of the united states. and she was also on board such as walmart's board. so there's all types of experience she brings to an election in 2016. a campaign in 2016. i think most of which is positive. at this point, does she have a lot of political baggage? yes. but she also has a lot of political experience. >> and last word to you, josh. back on iran. do you think the issue of iran, given the fact that most americans are so do havish on

this issue, does it become a political fight and is it a fight worth having for republicans? >> i think if the sanctions and diplomacy regime works, i don't think it becomes a political fight. everybody ends up trying to take credit for it. but i think the people in congress, especially republicans, pushing back on the president, may actually be serving a useful international purpose here. which is that if we want iran to give things up in negotiations and to agree to a permanent deal, it's helpful if they think we're a little bit crazy and that we might, you know, launch some sort of attack on them. we don't want to get to the point of actually launching an attack, but in a weird way strengthening the president's hand by indicating he only has such room to give things up to the iranians without concessions in return. >> and we need to deal with this guy, because those other people -- >> exactly. >> thanks. thank you and happy thanksgiving to all. >> happy thanksgiving. >> thank you, joy. we'll be right back. but first, more of today's white house turkey pardon. >> 80 turkeys on john's farm competed for the chance to make it to the white house and stay

off the thanksgiving table. it was quite literally the hunger games. ya know, with new fedex one rate you can fill that box and pay one flat rate. i didn't know the coal thing was real. it's very real... david rivera.

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what if barack obama is so outside our comprehension that only if you understand king and anti colonial behavior can you begin to piece together his actions? that bit of science was dropped by one newton leroy gingrich in a 2010 interview with "the national review." the inspiration for newt's piercing insight into our president came from this guy, prolific conservative writer, armchair psychoanalyst and diviner of revolutionary transference through a single meeting between a kenyan father

and his hawaiian-born son. after resigning his position as president of the christian king's college last october, he stormed back into our national consciousness this week via twitter. here's his thanksgiving wish. i am thankful when i remember that america is big enough and great enough to survive grown-up trayvon in the white house. that, of course, was meant to be an insult to a president who outraged the right by stating the obvious fact that if he had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. and that 35 years ago, he could have been trayvon. the black teenager who was shot and killed by a stranger in sanford, florida, in february 2012. an incident, i should add, the shooter was acquitted by a jury. it could only have an been an insult if you're one of those on the right and really, really hated trayvon martin.

that he was tray-gone, needed to be put down like a rabid dog. that because his death could even potentially cause people to question the proliferation of guns and the profiling of young, black men in our society, he couldn't just be a shooting victim. he had to be evil, hated, vilified and mocked, much like some of the right hate and vilify and mock president obama. but to trayvon martin's parents, the de sousa sideswipe was especially cruel. for one thing, unlike barack obama, trayvon martin had an involved father. his mom enrolled him in horseback riding lessons and flight training school and a really good high school. and, yes, he got into some trouble, like a lot of teenagers do, which is why his mom sent him to sanford with his dad in the first place, to get him back on track in the hope that one day their son could be like barack obama, who has admitted getting into trouble as a young man, but whose family did everything possible to keep him on track.

mr. de sousa, trayvon martin growing up to be like barack obama was exactly his parents' plan. and preventing her precious black son from ending up like trayvon martin was barack obama's mother's triumph. so indeed, i am thankful this thanksgiving that this country is big enough and great enough to survive the thoughtless, ugly haters. and to work toward ensuring that all of our trayvon martins have the opportunity to grow up to be barack obama. have a happy thanksgiving, denesh. and coming up on this thanksgiving eve, everybody wants a piece of the pie. but why are some pieces so much smaller than others? we'll talk turkey, straight ahead. hoo-hoo. hoo-hoo...hoo-hoo. hoo-hoo hoo.

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it's very likely many of us tomorrow will be asked what are you thankful for.

and today those may be the words at the head of the catholic church. pope francis has used his first major publication as pontiff to point out the threat of growing income inequality in society. quote, i beg the lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor. in this country, some of the worst off are our nation's minimum wage workers. in real terms, they have lost about $3.50 an hour in purchasing power since the late 1960s. add to that the proposed $40 billion in spending cuts to food stamps on which many working poor depend, and you have a situation made much worse. and yet for many in the gop, it's really just not an issue. if anything, they worry about a future where we don't make massive cuts to our social safety net. >> this is a future in which we will transform our social safety net into a hammock which lulls into complacency and dependence. >> and joining us to discuss this is jared bernstein, senior

fellow at the center of budget and priorities. and james peterson, associate professor at lehigh university. both msnbc contributors. jerryd, i'll start with you. as an economist, is there a coherent argument against raising the minimum wage? >> well, there is a coherent argument. it's just not an empirically sound argument. and in fact, it's been proved wrong many times over. the coherent argument is the one you've heard recently from john boehner. he goes around saying, we can't raise the minimum wage, because guess what, when you raise the price of something, people buy less of it. and frankly, that is quite coherent and basic econ 101. but if you actually look at the history of the minimum wage and it's been in place since 1938, many states have their own minimum wage values higher than the federal level. we have been able to do a ton of research on this. and we find out that, in fact, there are many other ways in which increases in the minimum wage get absorbed into our economy, such that the net benefits to the workers, as you

mentioned, such an possibility issue to low-wage workers are always turn out, almost always turn out be to be notably positive in these studies. so there are other ways in which the price increase plays out. it's not that we have less workers. it's actually that those workers are better off. >> and they can actually afford to purchase things, which helps business. >> right. >> and james, we obviously are getting nowhere with this house of representatives on the federal minimum wage. it's completely stalled in congress. but you have seen some states start to actually move forward on the state and local level. so today, for instance, there is a county in maryland that voted to gradually raise the rate to $11.50. you have california's minimum wage, set to go up to $10 an hour in 2016. and even a state like mississippi, very conservative state, polls suggested a majority would like to see the minimum wage go up. why do you suppose that that hasn't affected the national gop people like paul ryan, seeing even states like mississippi, conservative constituents, saying, yes we would like to have a minimum wage? >> because paul ryan is -- at least in this argument, is only

interested in protecting the 1%. and only interested in protecting the moneyed class. listen, not only, joy, are we as taxpayers subsidizing, like fast food workers, like people who work at mcdonald's who have to have food stamps and medicaid, the american taxpayers are subsidizing them. but that is happening at the same time that companies like mcdonald's have record profits. and so -- and look at walmart. another great example. the walmart family is the wealthiest of 40% of americans but buy back shares. wouldn't have to raise prices on the actual products that sold there. it would give their workers a living wage. and as a lot of folks have pointed out, those workers spend that money. low-income workers spend their disposable income. the only argument against raising the federal minimum wage or state minimum wage is to protect and insulate 1%. those folks who make the most profit from corporate america. >> and jared, james just mentioned walmart, and mcdonald's.

isn't the biggest irony of this that we the taxpayer wind up subsidizing these corporations, essentially, because when their workers can't afford to put food on the table with their minimum wage jobs, they wind up getting things like, you know, medicare. medicaid. they wind up using food stamps. they wind up getting federal subsidies anyway. >> i think that's right. and i think the key thing here, if you listen to the rhetoric of the republicans, like paul ryan, one of the things you hear is actually something that i agree with, up to a point, which is the following. and i wonder if james agrees with this, as well. i have absolutely no problem with anti poverty policy that is based on work. but the jobs have to be there. and they have to be remunicipe e remunerative. they have to have a high enough wage so families can afford what they need and has to be complemented. you didn't mention the earned income tax credit, to help

low-wage working people. if the jobs are there and they pay enough of a wage, including a higher minimum and work supports, then i think it's a great anti poverty mechanism. the problem with the republicans is they want to get rid of all that stuff and just somehow assume that good jobs are there. and they're not. >> and finally -- >> i agree. >> final word to you, james. the other issue, they make a moral case, almost as if people are poor and need government assistance are immoral or less moral. >> yeah. i -- i hate the moral authority discourse. it's been co opted by people who actually don't really care about the moral realities of poor people in this country. just look at the income gaps and widening wealth gaps between the 1% and the 2%, and these low-wage workers over the course of the last 30 years. it's getting worse. the rich are getting richer. the poor can't afford to put food on the table. so thanksgiving is an appropriate time for us to acknowledge this, and to talk more about the living wage here in america. >> you guys sound like an

awesome person that i've reasonable been introduced to named pope francis. thank you both. have a wonderful holiday. >> same to you. >> we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone. ♪ by the end of december, we'll be delivering ♪ ♪ through 12 blizzards blowing ♪ 8 front yards blinding ♪ 6 snowballs flying ♪ 5 packages addressed by toddlers ♪ ♪ that's a q ♪ 4 lightning bolts

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awesome person that i'v "the ed show" with ed schultz is next. but a final word before we go. while we have marked the thanksgiving holiday throughout this broadcast, we want to offer observance of the jewish faith that will run for eight days and eight nights. the start of hanukkah is being marked by a ceremony at this very moment in the nation's capitol. it is the first time since 1888 that the first full at a of hanukkah and thanksgiving fall on the same date and as tens of millions of americans take to the skies to reunite with family and friends, we offer two very special thank yous. first, thank you to each and every member of the military for

your service to this country. and thank you to the viewers who join us every day to discuss the world of politics and ideas. may all your holidays be peaceful and safe. ♪ i say i don't like cricket good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show," live from minneapolis. let's get to work. god blesses everyone who is kind to the poor. >> government is not the solution to our problem. >> the champion of those less fortunate. >> don't simply feed fish. >> government is the problem. >> don't simply feed fish. >> reverend moon? >> when you are hot for jesus christ, there is nothing that is like that. >> pope francis has made himself a champion of those less fortunate. >> the man quickly becoming the people's pope. >> don't simply feed fish. >> let's love people.